Trick or Treat

[eye_of_a_cat]

I have had SUCH AN ANNOYING couple of weeks at work, where we are a) trying to organise a big event while b) going through a hugely unsettling big structural shakeup that c) means everyone's worried about their jobs while d) we are also missing a lot of staff and e) aren't allowed to hire anyone until b) is sorted out. It's now at vaguely comedic levels. On top of this, both kids have been ill, and on top of that my mother-in-law is moving house and needs oh so much help with that.

On a related note, I have been part way through writing a trickortreatex recs post for ages - a fic exchange with a lot of spooky stories - and STILL HAVEN'T FINISHED, not least because I have still hardly read any of the ones I wanted to read due to ^ that. So most of that is still to come, but since we are now at the author reveals point already here are the two written for me, which I did get around to reading!

Moments of Transition, Moments of Revelation by cahn (Babylon 5, Delenn/Neroon, T) - is an absolutely wonderful, long, plotty, AU where Sheridan stays dead at Z'Ha'Dum and it's Delenn and Neroon with an arranged marriage to preserve political stability.

Superposition by kanadka (Babylon 5, Branmer, T) - a pivotal moment in Branmer's life, which is both complex worldbuilding backstory and also Branmer backstory specifically, and fits like an absolute jigsaw piece into canon without being the shape I would have expected at all.

(These two also make a wonderful set of the two things I always felt were missing in B5 fandom when I was really active in it about 15 years ago, which were Delenn/Neroon stories (I mean! that chemistry!) and anything about Branmer. And I am so so so pleased to see things like this being written now!)

And the ones I wrote:

Haunted in small ways (Babylon 5, G), for kalirush - Vir, Lennier, and a station full of ghosts.

Some say the world will end in fire (Babylon 5, M) for cahn - Delenn/Neroon, Warrior Caste festivals and political scheming.

And things that go bump in the night (Ghosts, G) for Small_Hobbit - how do you run a haunted house event in an actual haunted house?

Comments

[cahn]

I suppose it's got to calm down one way or another, right? Anyway, yes, fingers crossed. And yay for normal human functioning mode!

lol yes, and she also wouldn't see any conflict between "yes of course we're working together behind the scenes on a shared plan that relies both of us to have incredible levels of trust in each other" and still not telling him, I bet.

ahahaha, of course she doesn't! (And, like, she's not 100% wrong, in the sense that it doesn't actually change that they are able to have that trust and execute the plan itself, but... BUT. UM.)

(I couldn't tell if I was getting early/pre-S1 Delenn feeling right, or whether I was letting later Delenn cloud how she canonically was earlier. I think it worked out ok?)

I think it worked out great! Though I'm the wrong person to ask because being on a first watch, I probably am having later Delenn cloud early Delenn a lot myself -- but I really liked what you did with her knowing -- and both courting and being apprehensive of -- that she has an important destiny.

I do have a headcanon that Delenn was considered quite attractive as a Minbari in S1, and that when she turned human, all the Minbari around her were kind of feeling a little sad about it. (Lennier, of course, deals with it by doubling down on his crush.) So I thought it was great when Neroon called her beautiful in your fic :D <3

like JUST HOW does Lennier have Warrior caste relatives in the same clan/clan equivalent, just a few episodes after Sheridan makes a whole point about how any Religious and Warrior caste people talking to each other must obviously be on the Grey Council because otherwise they don't mix? How does this WORK?

Heh, this was before I got Super Invested in Minbar so this just flew over my head. (It also, now that you say this, flew over my head in your Lennier & Vir fic -- I was sort of like, why does Lennier have a cousin who went on the transports, did she switch castes? -- but now I love that part even more.) I love your headcanon though :D

But also! The idea that they've had space travel for over a thousand years

Yes! It's interesting because in selenak's rewatch she talked a lot about how the Minbari are basically the equivalent of Tolkien's Elves in the sense that they have a much older and more advanced civilization. But also presumably a more stagnant one, since they haven't progressed all that much since then... I never know quite what to do with that on a macro level. (Also I don't quite know what to do with the Minbari on one hand having a lot of selfless ideals about service and so on, and on the other hand clearly not really being into self-awareness or, say, relationship therapy even though in theory they're a thousand years advanced from us :P I have a headcanon that a lot of Minbari rituals kind of take the place of that -- that the reason why Minbari relationships are so ringed about with rituals is not to make Sheridan's life more difficult (even if that's the Doylistic reason), but because it's sort of scaffolding having actual discussions about stuff like "so, let's talk about what works for you sexually" and "so... let's have that deep conversation that you wouldn't have told me about otherwise.")

But also there's the more fine-grained ideas contained in a thousand years of space travel, which I think is where both of our interests are, where a thousand years of space travel is more than enough time for all kinds of traditions and rituals and even legends to grow up about the space travel itself, which is really neat. (I absolutely love the idea in your longfic about the Warrior Caste traditionally parading their infants aboard their ships!)

And it's the kind of thing that sounds absolutely barking mad to e.g. every non-religious person I heard comment on it, and I can simultaneously see their point and also think "but... it does matter..."

*nods* I didn't want to presume on other religions since I don't really necessarily know how they navigate that kind of thing (although now that I think about it, I used to be a section leader for a Catholic church choir years ago -- long story -- and I was there when they changed the words of the mass to "...and with your spirit," etc., which was a Thing), but yes! I see how it does matter and why those baptisms would need to be redone, and I also see why it seems mad to redo it! Especially if one hasn't been brought up in that particular viewpoint, so to speak.

(In Delenn and Neroon's case in the fic, I think they probably go round a couple more times on this and are unable to agree -- Neroon continues to think it is rather silly but okay, Religious Caste Is Like That, and Delenn continues to think it is important and that Neroon isn't getting it, but okay, Warrior Caste Is Like That, and then they cuddle in a highly deniable way and she ends up falling asleep on him.)

(My husband and I are also of different religions, and this often happens to us, not with the words thing specifically (where I think we agree, mostly), but e.g. my religion has strict "ward boundaries" where you have to go to the ward (congregation) delineated by where you live, and he thinks this is very silly, whereas I think there are good reasons for it! But we basically agree to disagree about these kinds of things :) )

[eye_of_a_cat]

(Sorry for the very late reply! Work has... not calmed down.)

Oh now you have finished the series I also wanted to say that I do have post-S5 Lennier fic! Sort of. Purity of Purpose and Missing.

when she turned human, all the Minbari around her were kind of feeling a little sad about it. (Lennier, of course, deals with it by doubling down on his crush.)

I love this!

the Minbari are basically the equivalent of Tolkien's Elves in the sense that they have a much older and more advanced civilization.

They are basically space-elves! And also like Tolkien elves in that they come across as more noble and spiritual while at the same time having a backstory that is surprisingly violent and awful that they don't like to get into much.

I have a headcanon that a lot of Minbari rituals kind of take the place of that -- that the reason why Minbari relationships are so ringed about with rituals is not to make Sheridan's life more difficult (even if that's the Doylistic reason), but because it's sort of scaffolding having actual discussions

Yes, I could see it working like this! And this being a fairly sensible approach really, on that level, although I also like the idea that what Delenn tells Sheridan is maybe not what it would look like from within Minbari society if you weren't having to make a point out of Doing It Properly so that your family don't ostracise you for marrying a non-Minbari. (Also clearly there are ways to get out of having some fairly important conversations, because communication never seems like a HUGE part of their marriage...)

(In Delenn and Neroon's case in the fic, I think they probably go round a couple more times on this and are unable to agree -- Neroon continues to think it is rather silly but okay, Religious Caste Is Like That, and Delenn continues to think it is important and that Neroon isn't getting it, but okay, Warrior Caste Is Like That, and then they cuddle in a highly deniable way and she ends up falling asleep on him.)

haha I can 100% see this!

I was there when they changed the words of the mass to "...and with your spirit," etc., which was a Thing

I am Catholic and have flubbed this one in front of the entire congregation at one point, oooooooops! I mean it was fine but, whyyyyyyy when everyone was looking at me. argh.

My husband is not Catholic and we got married in a non-Catholic ceremony when I wasn't that observant, and then had to get re-sort-of-married (convalidation) in a Catholic church to Catholic-ise it when I went back. And it was a really hard thing to explain the purpose of to him as he was coming from such a different perspective on it.

"No, the church does know I'm married, they just don't think it count as MARRIED married unless we stand in the right place and say the right things."
"????"
"just... humour me please. Also um, does your mum still have your baptism certificate? I need that too."

All credit to him for agreeing to this and being okay with it, because I don't think I was setting out a very convincing case!

[cahn]

ahhhhh yay for Lennier fic! I love these! I will get around to writing comments at some point!

although I also like the idea that what Delenn tells Sheridan is maybe not what it would look like from within Minbari society if you weren't having to make a point out of Doing It Properly so that your family don't ostracise you for marrying a non-Minbari.

Oh, that's a very cool idea as well! (Which, really, would make sense of that whole "40 rituals" (or however many it was) thing. Surely no one really does that many?)

And in general I rather like the idea that what Delenn tells Sheridan is not necessarily what it looks like to other Minbari, for what could be a myriad of reasons (like, in my fic, Neroon going "uh, no, we're not doing three nights, wtf").

(Also clearly there are ways to get out of having some fairly important conversations, because communication never seems like a HUGE part of their marriage...)

Oh, for sure (and this is one of my biggest frustrations with Sheridan/Delenn). But I think that whatever the intent of a ritual, it can certainly become something quite different in a situation where only one of the characters knows what is going on, and she may have her own agenda... as opposed to where both characters are in the culture and know all the unspoken rules around the ritual, and when the other party may or may not be breaking them.

I am Catholic and have flubbed this one in front of the entire congregation at one point, oooooooops!

Oh nooooo that is basically my nightmare. I mean, I'm glad it was OK!

My husband is not Catholic and we got married in a non-Catholic ceremony when I wasn't that observant, and then had to get re-sort-of-married (convalidation) in a Catholic church to Catholic-ise it when I went back. And it was a really hard thing to explain the purpose of to him as he was coming from such a different perspective on it.

Oh wow. Yeah, I can see how that would be quite difficult. My church (Church of Jesus Christ Latter Day Saints) has something a bit like that, in that the MARRIAGE marriages are done specially, but it's also the case that those special marriages have to be done between two members, so it was clearly impossible and I never had to talk my husband into anything (I guess not counting the highly dramatic breakup we had because of differing religions, followed by the somewhat less dramatic getting back together where we decided we could live with it), and we got married in his (Lutheran) church.