B5 thoughts

[eye_of_a_cat]

...and what have I done to my back? Ow. Ow. Who knew lounging about the house all week could be so hazardous to your health?

Anyway, I've been rewatching some B5 to reward myself for all the work I did in... er, December, so this excuse may be coming to the end of its lifespan. (Also maybe for long-overdue-epic-that-hates-being-written related reasons, possibly.) Some thoughts on 'In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum' and 'Atonement', then.


ItSoZ is my favourite Sheridan episode ever. Granted, it doesn't have a lot of competition, but that doesn't mean I love it any less. This is why:

'You seem to have forgotten something, Mr Morden. Earth Central thinks you're dead. Until I send them my report, you're still dead. That means you've got no rights, no legal recourse, no-one to miss you if you... don't turn up. [...] If necessary you will sit here for the next hour, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year, the next five hundred years. But you will not leave until I know the truth.'

Sheridan is just the same here as he is in the rest of the series, determined and quite willing to break regulations if it's for a good cause. And there's no doubt it is a good cause, since there's no question that Morden is bad, or that he knows a lot more than he's saying. Here, though, Sheridan's actions are not shown as a good and justifiable thing to do. He's obsessive and threatening and dangerous, and even Garibaldi challenges him on the necessity of having lines that you just can't cross. And he knows what he's doing and why it's wrong, but it's connected to Anna, and so he just doesn't care. It makes you wonder what their marriage was like.

Seeing this as a precursor to Sheridan's actions post-going to Z'ha'dum, and breaking away from Earth (I do think he was justified in that case, but no decision that huge is without its perfectly reasonable criticisms that need to be answered, and he shouldn't have escaped them) was horribly sad, too. Garibaldi stands up to him in exactly the same way, including handing over his resignation because he refuses to be party to what's happening. At the end of the episode, Garibaldi says "Next time, will you listen to me?", and Sheridan says "There won't be a next time."

I loved how completely Sheridan was obsessed with Anna this early in the series. Morden hasn't actually done anything on the station that can be proven, but he isn't even being locked up because of the things he's done that can't be, since Sheridan doesn't know about them. Sheridan just knows that he's alive and Anna isn't. I don't think he believes Morden killed Anna, although he mentions it as a possibility, and obviously he believes Morden's got to know something about what happened that Sheridan doesn't - but I think one of the most telling moments in the episode was Sheridan throwing down a photo of Anna when Morden suggests charging him with something, and that Morden's crime here, as Sheridan sees it, is surviving the Icarus. Everything Sheridan does at this point is motivated by Anna: if there's a chance she's alive, then she's on Z'ha'dum, and he'll go. If she's dead, then the Shadows killed her, and he wants Kosh to teach him how to fight them. When Delenn and Kosh tell him the history of the Shadows, after Kosh plays out that Vorlon reconstruction of events (I doubt the Vorlons had video cameras there, somehow), his first word is 'Anna'. Like he says himself earlier in the episode, without Anna, 'nothing else means one damn.'

In retrospect, Delenn very obviously isn't telling him the truth when she says that those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were killed. Those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were put into Shadow ships and ended up serving the Shadows anyway, Anna included. I wonder how much of her was left after that, though - if her body was still there, and all her memories were intact, wouldn't that make her a lot closer to being the same person she was before that Sheridan allows for after going to Z'ha'dum? Not that I could really blame him for wanting to think she wasn't, given that he'd just killed her. But still. (Granted, she's working for the Shadows, but I'm sure that wouldn't have taken too much mind-meddling to accomplish if the Shadows want to make themselves look like The Good Guys - just show everything bad the Vorlons have ever done, then everything bad the Minbari have ever done, then mention that this Minbari woman working with the Vorlons is getting awfully close to your husband, then point in the right direction.)

Seeing Morden get annoyed was a nice change, too. He actually looks shocked for a second when Sheridan pushes him back into his chair and says he's not leaving, and he is clearly not happy when Vir tells him what he wants. Obviously that was worth a try, but I don't think he was holding out any high hopes that what Vir wanted would be something Shadow-compatible. Still, even Morden doesn't like having his own death described quite so graphically. (It must have been tough for Vir to demand Morden's release, though. I wonder if he was expecting Sheridan to notice a connection between Londo's recent rise in power and Londo wanting Morden free? Not that it would have helped in the end.) I think Delenn was completely wrong, though, when she said that Morden would talk sooner or later if Sheridan kept trying. Wouldn't the Shadows just get him out if he seemed about to talk? But I doubt he would have talked anyway, since he's not their servant. He's their associate. He believes completely in what he's doing, and he isn't about to ruin things for himself.

Since Morden is clearly not stupid, I don't think he believed the it-was-all-a-misunderstanding line. If the Shadows didn't either, then don't they suspect that Sheridan knows about them by now? And if they do, then why don't they just move straight away, the way Delenn and Kosh are afraid of? It doesn't seem like they know, though. Which means I have no idea what to make of Morden's smugly evil smile straight into the camera at the end. Hm.

The B-plot was the Ministry of Peace thing, about which I have little to say except that it would be nice if the suave-and-polite-yet-obviously-evil type of bad guys (Morden excepted) could occasionally not be English.


----


"I am descended from Valen" is not a reason for marrying Sheridan. "I am descended from Valen, and will not hesitate to tell all of Minbar this" is a reason for why your clan can't stop you marrying Sheridan. (Also, it's not a good reason for Dukhat appointing her to the Grey Council - how does sharing a piece of Valen's DNA make you qualified to lead your planet? But that's another grumble.) This seems like one of the few points in the series when we're supposed to doubt the overarching wonderfulness of the canon OTP - the Valen thing isn't convincing as a reason, and Delenn's clan places a lot of emphasis on how she might have reasons she doesn't know about, and as selenakpointed out a while ago, if we're supposed to disagree with the idea that she's marrying Sheridan in large part because of how guilty she feels about the war, then why call the episode 'Atonement'? So, I don't think Delenn's stated reason of 'Because I love him' is a good one. It's true, but it's sort of missing the point - she might as well have said 'Because we're engaged'. Her clan wanted to know why.

(Yes, admittedly, sometimes there isn't a 'why', but most of the time there is. They clearly didn't fall in love despite their intentions, or at least she didn't - is there any point in Season 2 where it doesn't look like she's planning the whole thing? - and besides, wonderful classic romantic love stories usually aren't. Romeo and Juliet is about what happens when you think love's such a wonderful thing it can overcome everything. Wuthering Heights is about what happens when you think someone's the other half of your soul. Stories that believe in the 'We're in love because we're in love, and isn't everything all fluffy wonderful puppies and kittens and sunshine?' are boring for a reason, IMHO.)

I also don't believe her when she said that she'd abide by her clan's decision if they ordered her to stay. It might be nice for creating some superficial shippery angst, but given everything else Delenn's ever done, I don't buy it as plausible for a second. The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that she was fully prepared to ignore them if they told her to stay, but wanted to at least try to have their approval.

But then, if she isn't worried about having to stay behind on Minbar, that can't explain why she's so upset around Sheridan in her scenes back on B5. So. Since she knows what she's being called back to Minbar for, and since she tells Lennier that he might see things which would change his opinion of her, she must already know that whatever happens will mean being reminded of her role in the war. And if she's thinking about that when she's on the station, it would make sense that she's acting differently around Sheridan. Being upset, though, and touching his face like that... it's as if only his life was ever in danger. Which, I suppose, is what she's hoping to achieve by their entire relationship - making his forgiveness the same thing as his entire people's forgiveness.

Or maybe she was close to telling him. One of the first things Callenn says is that if he was in her place, he would tell Sheridan the truth (in context, presumably about her not being allowed to return to Babylon 5, but it's not difficult to see it as a wider thing). It can't be easy to live with him and know that there's this terrible thing he doesn't know about her, and I wonder how close she ever came to telling him. It also puzzles me that he never asks, given how obsessively curious he can be about other things - I suppose he must have worked out enough to know that she was someone important on Minbar at the time of the war, and then realised he loved her too much to let himself know if she'd done anything terrible. I don't know if he'd be able to forgive her.

It's not really explained what the Dreaming is, which may well be a good thing for technobabble-related reasons. Presumably the liquid they drink must have something to do with it, but if it's some sort of drug-induced trance, then how come the other people present can see it as well? Maybe the Whisper Gallery has some kind of power to display what someone's thinking. In that case, though, I wonder why there always has to be two people in the Dreaming - so the first one can't lie about what they saw? Or so they can't escape someone else seeing their secrets?

It's interesting that she only really admits her responsibility once, to Lennier. Even her own mind tries to excuse her "No mercy!" order, by showing her scenes of herself telling another Satai that the war was a mistake. And the rest of the Minbari aren't much better - one of them says that the war can't be stopped because it's taken on a life of its own, which is a handy way of making it everyone's war but no-one's fault. It's not until Lennier tries to tell her she wasn't responsible that she says, no, it was my order.

Although that's all before hearing what Dukhat said to her, and after that she becomes completely confident again. Maybe she really believes that she's found her reason. It does make me wish she wasn't quite so good at surrounding herself with characters who never quite dared to question her, though. Atonement needed more Neroon.

Comments

Re: (II)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Delenn's passivity in In the Beginning remains inexplainable to me as well. I enjoy a lot of that film (notably the Aged Londo scenes, of course*g*), but the idea of her realizing at once she made a mistake and then making one attempt, and only one, to stop the war doesn't compute.

I think Delenn wants forgiveness as much as Londo does, but she's willing to accept things that would be a consequence of forgiveness in place of that forgiveness itself - so if Sheridan loves her, then it doesn't matter if she never quite got around to telling him what she'd done. It does seem that canon exonerates her for it, though, and that bothers me. We only ever really get this one episode where she talks about it, which doesn't seem right.

It's remarkable though that this episode which during the original broadcast was the first time the viewers learned of Delenn's guilt came rather late in the show, so it's not like JMS established it early on and then glossed it over. Still, I suppose Sheridan and Delenn are supposed to be the succesful, destiny-mastering couple as opposed to Londo and G'Kar as the tragic, doomed one, hence no more repercussions for Delenn post season 4.

Mind you, Londo has to have a heart attack before accepting the extent of his personal culpability - and he wants G'Kar's affection long before that (No Surrender, No Retreat), so they're not completely different.

I wonder if Delenn ever made the connection between the Vorlons destroying entire worlds because there's something bad and what the Minbari were doing? I'm convinced that was Vorlon-influenced behaviour

Probably. The Minbari were the race most openly influenced by the Vorlons, after all. As for whether Delenn made the connection - that's my personal explanation on why she showed up for the demise of Kosh II when there was absolutely no reason to. It's also interesting that when the Shadows talk to her later on, they do it in her own shape.

Re: (II)

[eye-of-a-cat.livejournal.com]

the idea of her realizing at once she made a mistake and then making one attempt, and only one, to stop the war doesn't compute.

Yeah. I'd have found it easier to accept if she'd really tried and failed, or if she'd actively been prevented from doing anything, but it's out of character for her to be so passive there. (Admittedly, young Delenn in the Atonement flashbacks is a lot less sure of herself, but that's in the presence of Dukhat and the Grey Council - and I don't think she'd have been there in the first place if she acted the same way around everyone. With a few brief moments of exception, I think she's spent pretty much her entire life believing herself to be important chosen for a great purpose, and acting appropriately.)

It's remarkable though that this episode which during the original broadcast was the first time the viewers learned of Delenn's guilt came rather late in the show

I wonder how long JMS had this revelation planned? Her saying that she's spent the last ten years trying to make up for one moment of rage does explain a lot of her behaviour, although arguably we could guess some of her responsibility from knowing very early on that she was on the Grey Council. Which makes me wonder, too - if Sheridan knows by Sleeping in Light that she'd been on the Grey Council, which he says he does, then how close did he get to finding out what she did in the war?

It's also interesting that when the Shadows talk to her later on, they do it in her own shape.

And say "You, of all people" should understand what they've done. Which she promptly forgets about when they go beyond the Rim. That scene needed to be longer, I think - deborah_judge said a while ago that Delenn wouldn't have been able to send away the Vorlons anywhere near so easily as she sends away the Shadows, and it would have been interesting to see her have to deal with either in more depth.

Re: (II)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I wonder how long JMS had this revelation planned? Her saying that she's spent the last ten years trying to make up for one moment of rage does explain a lot of her behaviour, although arguably we could guess some of her responsibility from knowing very early on that she was on the Grey Council.

True. I don't think JMS had everyone's storylines mapped out to the last detail (and not just because of the obvious necessity to change some stuff because the actors left), but in the case of Delenn I'm inclined to think this particular bit of her backstory was long term. First season Delenn was presented as ambiguous, but second and third season Delenn was shown basically exclusively in a positive light, and so I don't think it was a sudden new idea but rather something that, if Sinclair had remained the leading man, would have come to light somewhat sooner. (To provide a greater parallel between them.)

Which makes me wonder, too - if Sheridan knows by Sleeping in Light that she'd been on the Grey Council, which he says he does, then how close did he get to finding out what she did in the war?

I think if he had ever asked her directly, she would have told him. But he just didn't want to know, and so he asked neither her nor anyone else.

That scene needed to be longer, I think - deborah_judge said a while ago that Delenn wouldn't have been able to send away the Vorlons anywhere near so easily as she sends away the Shadows, and it would have been interesting to see her have to deal with either in more depth.

Yes to the later, but I'm not sure about the former. I think Delenn really meant it when she told Kosh II that she would lose all respect for "you" - meaning not just him, but the Vorlons in general -, and that was what she did. If she needed to be disillusioned about the Vorlons any further, she got it when finding Lyta in that rather blatant allegory of the abused wife scene. Lastly, she already had her big "Who are you?" inquisition. So I think that yes, she would have dismissed the Vorlons. "What do you want?" otoh, was a question she never answered in canon.

Re: (II)

[eye-of-a-cat.livejournal.com]

and so I don't think it was a sudden new idea but rather something that, if Sinclair had remained the leading man, would have come to light somewhat sooner.

That sounds reasonable, and I think it would have been presented as a far less excusable thing in that situation, too - Sheridan wasn't the one who said he'd spent years still wanting to strangle Minbari with his bare hands, after all.

I think Delenn really meant it when she told Kosh II that she would lose all respect for "you" - meaning not just him, but the Vorlons in general -, and that was what she did.

Yes, most likely. (And your interpretation a while ago of Delenn's losing faith in the Vorlons being one of the reasons she's starving herself to death at the beginning of season 4 seems very likely, too.) But I don't think even she could break away from them and what they stand for that easily, especially given how much the Vorlons have influenced the Minbari for the past thousand years, when her own answer to "Who are you?" is so dependent on Sheridan, and by extension all of his people, accepting her as human.

I would've liked to see her answer "What do you want?" in canon. I suppose a lot of the time she does get what she wants, but when what she wants is something like being the one to end the Shadow war, then it's possible to say that her own motives are irrelevant and it's just something that had to happen. Same with whatever she wanted during the Earth/Minbari war, I suppose.