eye_of_a_cat (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
eye_of_a_cat) wrote2005-01-04 01:40 am
eye_of_a_cat) wrote2005-01-04 01:40 am
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B5 thoughts
...and what have I done to my back? Ow. Ow. Who knew lounging about the house all week could be so hazardous to your health?
Anyway, I've been rewatching some B5 to reward myself for all the work I did in... er, December, so this excuse may be coming to the end of its lifespan. (Also maybe for long-overdue-epic-that-hates-being-written related reasons, possibly.) Some thoughts on 'In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum' and 'Atonement', then.
ItSoZ is my favourite Sheridan episode ever. Granted, it doesn't have a lot of competition, but that doesn't mean I love it any less. This is why:
'You seem to have forgotten something, Mr Morden. Earth Central thinks you're dead. Until I send them my report, you're still dead. That means you've got no rights, no legal recourse, no-one to miss you if you... don't turn up. [...] If necessary you will sit here for the next hour, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year, the next five hundred years. But you will not leave until I know the truth.'
Sheridan is just the same here as he is in the rest of the series, determined and quite willing to break regulations if it's for a good cause. And there's no doubt it is a good cause, since there's no question that Morden is bad, or that he knows a lot more than he's saying. Here, though, Sheridan's actions are not shown as a good and justifiable thing to do. He's obsessive and threatening and dangerous, and even Garibaldi challenges him on the necessity of having lines that you just can't cross. And he knows what he's doing and why it's wrong, but it's connected to Anna, and so he just doesn't care. It makes you wonder what their marriage was like.
Seeing this as a precursor to Sheridan's actions post-going to Z'ha'dum, and breaking away from Earth (I do think he was justified in that case, but no decision that huge is without its perfectly reasonable criticisms that need to be answered, and he shouldn't have escaped them) was horribly sad, too. Garibaldi stands up to him in exactly the same way, including handing over his resignation because he refuses to be party to what's happening. At the end of the episode, Garibaldi says "Next time, will you listen to me?", and Sheridan says "There won't be a next time."
I loved how completely Sheridan was obsessed with Anna this early in the series. Morden hasn't actually done anything on the station that can be proven, but he isn't even being locked up because of the things he's done that can't be, since Sheridan doesn't know about them. Sheridan just knows that he's alive and Anna isn't. I don't think he believes Morden killed Anna, although he mentions it as a possibility, and obviously he believes Morden's got to know something about what happened that Sheridan doesn't - but I think one of the most telling moments in the episode was Sheridan throwing down a photo of Anna when Morden suggests charging him with something, and that Morden's crime here, as Sheridan sees it, is surviving the Icarus. Everything Sheridan does at this point is motivated by Anna: if there's a chance she's alive, then she's on Z'ha'dum, and he'll go. If she's dead, then the Shadows killed her, and he wants Kosh to teach him how to fight them. When Delenn and Kosh tell him the history of the Shadows, after Kosh plays out that Vorlon reconstruction of events (I doubt the Vorlons had video cameras there, somehow), his first word is 'Anna'. Like he says himself earlier in the episode, without Anna, 'nothing else means one damn.'
In retrospect, Delenn very obviously isn't telling him the truth when she says that those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were killed. Those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were put into Shadow ships and ended up serving the Shadows anyway, Anna included. I wonder how much of her was left after that, though - if her body was still there, and all her memories were intact, wouldn't that make her a lot closer to being the same person she was before that Sheridan allows for after going to Z'ha'dum? Not that I could really blame him for wanting to think she wasn't, given that he'd just killed her. But still. (Granted, she's working for the Shadows, but I'm sure that wouldn't have taken too much mind-meddling to accomplish if the Shadows want to make themselves look like The Good Guys - just show everything bad the Vorlons have ever done, then everything bad the Minbari have ever done, then mention that this Minbari woman working with the Vorlons is getting awfully close to your husband, then point in the right direction.)
Seeing Morden get annoyed was a nice change, too. He actually looks shocked for a second when Sheridan pushes him back into his chair and says he's not leaving, and he is clearly not happy when Vir tells him what he wants. Obviously that was worth a try, but I don't think he was holding out any high hopes that what Vir wanted would be something Shadow-compatible. Still, even Morden doesn't like having his own death described quite so graphically. (It must have been tough for Vir to demand Morden's release, though. I wonder if he was expecting Sheridan to notice a connection between Londo's recent rise in power and Londo wanting Morden free? Not that it would have helped in the end.) I think Delenn was completely wrong, though, when she said that Morden would talk sooner or later if Sheridan kept trying. Wouldn't the Shadows just get him out if he seemed about to talk? But I doubt he would have talked anyway, since he's not their servant. He's their associate. He believes completely in what he's doing, and he isn't about to ruin things for himself.
Since Morden is clearly not stupid, I don't think he believed the it-was-all-a-misunderstanding line. If the Shadows didn't either, then don't they suspect that Sheridan knows about them by now? And if they do, then why don't they just move straight away, the way Delenn and Kosh are afraid of? It doesn't seem like they know, though. Which means I have no idea what to make of Morden's smugly evil smile straight into the camera at the end. Hm.
The B-plot was the Ministry of Peace thing, about which I have little to say except that it would be nice if the suave-and-polite-yet-obviously-evil type of bad guys (Morden excepted) could occasionally not be English.
----
"I am descended from Valen" is not a reason for marrying Sheridan. "I am descended from Valen, and will not hesitate to tell all of Minbar this" is a reason for why your clan can't stop you marrying Sheridan. (Also, it's not a good reason for Dukhat appointing her to the Grey Council - how does sharing a piece of Valen's DNA make you qualified to lead your planet? But that's another grumble.) This seems like one of the few points in the series when we're supposed to doubt the overarching wonderfulness of the canon OTP - the Valen thing isn't convincing as a reason, and Delenn's clan places a lot of emphasis on how she might have reasons she doesn't know about, and as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
selenakpointed out a while ago, if we're supposed to disagree with the idea that she's marrying Sheridan in large part because of how guilty she feels about the war, then why call the episode 'Atonement'? So, I don't think Delenn's stated reason of 'Because I love him' is a good one. It's true, but it's sort of missing the point - she might as well have said 'Because we're engaged'. Her clan wanted to know why.
(Yes, admittedly, sometimes there isn't a 'why', but most of the time there is. They clearly didn't fall in love despite their intentions, or at least she didn't - is there any point in Season 2 where it doesn't look like she's planning the whole thing? - and besides, wonderful classic romantic love stories usually aren't. Romeo and Juliet is about what happens when you think love's such a wonderful thing it can overcome everything. Wuthering Heights is about what happens when you think someone's the other half of your soul. Stories that believe in the 'We're in love because we're in love, and isn't everything all fluffy wonderful puppies and kittens and sunshine?' are boring for a reason, IMHO.)
I also don't believe her when she said that she'd abide by her clan's decision if they ordered her to stay. It might be nice for creating some superficial shippery angst, but given everything else Delenn's ever done, I don't buy it as plausible for a second. The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that she was fully prepared to ignore them if they told her to stay, but wanted to at least try to have their approval.
But then, if she isn't worried about having to stay behind on Minbar, that can't explain why she's so upset around Sheridan in her scenes back on B5. So. Since she knows what she's being called back to Minbar for, and since she tells Lennier that he might see things which would change his opinion of her, she must already know that whatever happens will mean being reminded of her role in the war. And if she's thinking about that when she's on the station, it would make sense that she's acting differently around Sheridan. Being upset, though, and touching his face like that... it's as if only his life was ever in danger. Which, I suppose, is what she's hoping to achieve by their entire relationship - making his forgiveness the same thing as his entire people's forgiveness.
Or maybe she was close to telling him. One of the first things Callenn says is that if he was in her place, he would tell Sheridan the truth (in context, presumably about her not being allowed to return to Babylon 5, but it's not difficult to see it as a wider thing). It can't be easy to live with him and know that there's this terrible thing he doesn't know about her, and I wonder how close she ever came to telling him. It also puzzles me that he never asks, given how obsessively curious he can be about other things - I suppose he must have worked out enough to know that she was someone important on Minbar at the time of the war, and then realised he loved her too much to let himself know if she'd done anything terrible. I don't know if he'd be able to forgive her.
It's not really explained what the Dreaming is, which may well be a good thing for technobabble-related reasons. Presumably the liquid they drink must have something to do with it, but if it's some sort of drug-induced trance, then how come the other people present can see it as well? Maybe the Whisper Gallery has some kind of power to display what someone's thinking. In that case, though, I wonder why there always has to be two people in the Dreaming - so the first one can't lie about what they saw? Or so they can't escape someone else seeing their secrets?
It's interesting that she only really admits her responsibility once, to Lennier. Even her own mind tries to excuse her "No mercy!" order, by showing her scenes of herself telling another Satai that the war was a mistake. And the rest of the Minbari aren't much better - one of them says that the war can't be stopped because it's taken on a life of its own, which is a handy way of making it everyone's war but no-one's fault. It's not until Lennier tries to tell her she wasn't responsible that she says, no, it was my order.
Although that's all before hearing what Dukhat said to her, and after that she becomes completely confident again. Maybe she really believes that she's found her reason. It does make me wish she wasn't quite so good at surrounding herself with characters who never quite dared to question her, though. Atonement needed more Neroon.
Anyway, I've been rewatching some B5 to reward myself for all the work I did in... er, December, so this excuse may be coming to the end of its lifespan. (Also maybe for long-overdue-epic-that-hates-being-written related reasons, possibly.) Some thoughts on 'In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum' and 'Atonement', then.
ItSoZ is my favourite Sheridan episode ever. Granted, it doesn't have a lot of competition, but that doesn't mean I love it any less. This is why:
'You seem to have forgotten something, Mr Morden. Earth Central thinks you're dead. Until I send them my report, you're still dead. That means you've got no rights, no legal recourse, no-one to miss you if you... don't turn up. [...] If necessary you will sit here for the next hour, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year, the next five hundred years. But you will not leave until I know the truth.'
Sheridan is just the same here as he is in the rest of the series, determined and quite willing to break regulations if it's for a good cause. And there's no doubt it is a good cause, since there's no question that Morden is bad, or that he knows a lot more than he's saying. Here, though, Sheridan's actions are not shown as a good and justifiable thing to do. He's obsessive and threatening and dangerous, and even Garibaldi challenges him on the necessity of having lines that you just can't cross. And he knows what he's doing and why it's wrong, but it's connected to Anna, and so he just doesn't care. It makes you wonder what their marriage was like.
Seeing this as a precursor to Sheridan's actions post-going to Z'ha'dum, and breaking away from Earth (I do think he was justified in that case, but no decision that huge is without its perfectly reasonable criticisms that need to be answered, and he shouldn't have escaped them) was horribly sad, too. Garibaldi stands up to him in exactly the same way, including handing over his resignation because he refuses to be party to what's happening. At the end of the episode, Garibaldi says "Next time, will you listen to me?", and Sheridan says "There won't be a next time."
I loved how completely Sheridan was obsessed with Anna this early in the series. Morden hasn't actually done anything on the station that can be proven, but he isn't even being locked up because of the things he's done that can't be, since Sheridan doesn't know about them. Sheridan just knows that he's alive and Anna isn't. I don't think he believes Morden killed Anna, although he mentions it as a possibility, and obviously he believes Morden's got to know something about what happened that Sheridan doesn't - but I think one of the most telling moments in the episode was Sheridan throwing down a photo of Anna when Morden suggests charging him with something, and that Morden's crime here, as Sheridan sees it, is surviving the Icarus. Everything Sheridan does at this point is motivated by Anna: if there's a chance she's alive, then she's on Z'ha'dum, and he'll go. If she's dead, then the Shadows killed her, and he wants Kosh to teach him how to fight them. When Delenn and Kosh tell him the history of the Shadows, after Kosh plays out that Vorlon reconstruction of events (I doubt the Vorlons had video cameras there, somehow), his first word is 'Anna'. Like he says himself earlier in the episode, without Anna, 'nothing else means one damn.'
In retrospect, Delenn very obviously isn't telling him the truth when she says that those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were killed. Those who wouldn't serve the Shadows were put into Shadow ships and ended up serving the Shadows anyway, Anna included. I wonder how much of her was left after that, though - if her body was still there, and all her memories were intact, wouldn't that make her a lot closer to being the same person she was before that Sheridan allows for after going to Z'ha'dum? Not that I could really blame him for wanting to think she wasn't, given that he'd just killed her. But still. (Granted, she's working for the Shadows, but I'm sure that wouldn't have taken too much mind-meddling to accomplish if the Shadows want to make themselves look like The Good Guys - just show everything bad the Vorlons have ever done, then everything bad the Minbari have ever done, then mention that this Minbari woman working with the Vorlons is getting awfully close to your husband, then point in the right direction.)
Seeing Morden get annoyed was a nice change, too. He actually looks shocked for a second when Sheridan pushes him back into his chair and says he's not leaving, and he is clearly not happy when Vir tells him what he wants. Obviously that was worth a try, but I don't think he was holding out any high hopes that what Vir wanted would be something Shadow-compatible. Still, even Morden doesn't like having his own death described quite so graphically. (It must have been tough for Vir to demand Morden's release, though. I wonder if he was expecting Sheridan to notice a connection between Londo's recent rise in power and Londo wanting Morden free? Not that it would have helped in the end.) I think Delenn was completely wrong, though, when she said that Morden would talk sooner or later if Sheridan kept trying. Wouldn't the Shadows just get him out if he seemed about to talk? But I doubt he would have talked anyway, since he's not their servant. He's their associate. He believes completely in what he's doing, and he isn't about to ruin things for himself.
Since Morden is clearly not stupid, I don't think he believed the it-was-all-a-misunderstanding line. If the Shadows didn't either, then don't they suspect that Sheridan knows about them by now? And if they do, then why don't they just move straight away, the way Delenn and Kosh are afraid of? It doesn't seem like they know, though. Which means I have no idea what to make of Morden's smugly evil smile straight into the camera at the end. Hm.
The B-plot was the Ministry of Peace thing, about which I have little to say except that it would be nice if the suave-and-polite-yet-obviously-evil type of bad guys (Morden excepted) could occasionally not be English.
----
"I am descended from Valen" is not a reason for marrying Sheridan. "I am descended from Valen, and will not hesitate to tell all of Minbar this" is a reason for why your clan can't stop you marrying Sheridan. (Also, it's not a good reason for Dukhat appointing her to the Grey Council - how does sharing a piece of Valen's DNA make you qualified to lead your planet? But that's another grumble.) This seems like one of the few points in the series when we're supposed to doubt the overarching wonderfulness of the canon OTP - the Valen thing isn't convincing as a reason, and Delenn's clan places a lot of emphasis on how she might have reasons she doesn't know about, and as
selenakpointed out a while ago, if we're supposed to disagree with the idea that she's marrying Sheridan in large part because of how guilty she feels about the war, then why call the episode 'Atonement'? So, I don't think Delenn's stated reason of 'Because I love him' is a good one. It's true, but it's sort of missing the point - she might as well have said 'Because we're engaged'. Her clan wanted to know why. (Yes, admittedly, sometimes there isn't a 'why', but most of the time there is. They clearly didn't fall in love despite their intentions, or at least she didn't - is there any point in Season 2 where it doesn't look like she's planning the whole thing? - and besides, wonderful classic romantic love stories usually aren't. Romeo and Juliet is about what happens when you think love's such a wonderful thing it can overcome everything. Wuthering Heights is about what happens when you think someone's the other half of your soul. Stories that believe in the 'We're in love because we're in love, and isn't everything all fluffy wonderful puppies and kittens and sunshine?' are boring for a reason, IMHO.)
I also don't believe her when she said that she'd abide by her clan's decision if they ordered her to stay. It might be nice for creating some superficial shippery angst, but given everything else Delenn's ever done, I don't buy it as plausible for a second. The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that she was fully prepared to ignore them if they told her to stay, but wanted to at least try to have their approval.
But then, if she isn't worried about having to stay behind on Minbar, that can't explain why she's so upset around Sheridan in her scenes back on B5. So. Since she knows what she's being called back to Minbar for, and since she tells Lennier that he might see things which would change his opinion of her, she must already know that whatever happens will mean being reminded of her role in the war. And if she's thinking about that when she's on the station, it would make sense that she's acting differently around Sheridan. Being upset, though, and touching his face like that... it's as if only his life was ever in danger. Which, I suppose, is what she's hoping to achieve by their entire relationship - making his forgiveness the same thing as his entire people's forgiveness.
Or maybe she was close to telling him. One of the first things Callenn says is that if he was in her place, he would tell Sheridan the truth (in context, presumably about her not being allowed to return to Babylon 5, but it's not difficult to see it as a wider thing). It can't be easy to live with him and know that there's this terrible thing he doesn't know about her, and I wonder how close she ever came to telling him. It also puzzles me that he never asks, given how obsessively curious he can be about other things - I suppose he must have worked out enough to know that she was someone important on Minbar at the time of the war, and then realised he loved her too much to let himself know if she'd done anything terrible. I don't know if he'd be able to forgive her.
It's not really explained what the Dreaming is, which may well be a good thing for technobabble-related reasons. Presumably the liquid they drink must have something to do with it, but if it's some sort of drug-induced trance, then how come the other people present can see it as well? Maybe the Whisper Gallery has some kind of power to display what someone's thinking. In that case, though, I wonder why there always has to be two people in the Dreaming - so the first one can't lie about what they saw? Or so they can't escape someone else seeing their secrets?
It's interesting that she only really admits her responsibility once, to Lennier. Even her own mind tries to excuse her "No mercy!" order, by showing her scenes of herself telling another Satai that the war was a mistake. And the rest of the Minbari aren't much better - one of them says that the war can't be stopped because it's taken on a life of its own, which is a handy way of making it everyone's war but no-one's fault. It's not until Lennier tries to tell her she wasn't responsible that she says, no, it was my order.
Although that's all before hearing what Dukhat said to her, and after that she becomes completely confident again. Maybe she really believes that she's found her reason. It does make me wish she wasn't quite so good at surrounding herself with characters who never quite dared to question her, though. Atonement needed more Neroon.
(I)
Same here, for much the same reasons.
Here, though, Sheridan's actions are not shown as a good and justifiable thing to do.
No, and I'm hard pressed to think of parallels in other shows. It's also a very contemporary topic. Because Morden is a certified villain, and not an innocent, but the episode makes it clear - both through Garibaldi and Ivanova - that this still doesn't mean Sheridan can can abuse his own power by going Guantanamo on him.
I loved how completely Sheridan was obsessed with Anna this early in the series.
When rewatching the show, I was struck by the "my wife and my career" line, because obviously these are the two things he has to abandon in the course of his personal arc. B5 is very much about change, and Sheridan has to leave the two things he used to define himself behind - the EarthForce career officer, and Anna's husband. Which is why I think his personal arc ends at Z'ha'dum, which is the culmination of these developments.
I wonder how much of her was left after that, though - if her body was still there, and all her memories were intact, wouldn't that make her a lot closer to being the same person she was before that Sheridan allows for after going to Z'ha'dum?
Here we get into "how much do memories define a person" territory, which two other favourite shows of mine have examined beautifully. On B5, you have the concept of the death of personality via memory wipe and the implant of a new one, which I always found deeply disturbing yet fascinating. In Passing through Gethsemane, Edward and Charles are clearly two distinct personalities, both real, and yet they share the same body, and Edward is an artificial creation made to atone for Charles' crimes. Carolyn in Ship of Tears seems to be the same person Bester fell in love with, despite the implants and the drive to merge with machines, but then Carolyn was never actually plugged in a Shadow vessel.
(Sheridan draws an interesting parallel between Anna and Carolyn, in one of the few post-Z'ha'Dum Anna references, when talking to Bester in Rising Star, when he says he knows what it is to love someone and to lose her only to find her again and lose her once more. He does not make the distinction of this not having really been Anna then, but of course he's arguing with someone and pressed for time.)
Seeing Morden get annoyed was a nice change, too. He actually looks shocked for a second when Sheridan pushes him back into his chair and says he's not leaving, and he is clearly not happy when Vir tells him what he wants.
I think the only other time whe see Morden lose his cool - but then spectacularly - is when Londo blows up the island Selini.
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(II)
Which brings up the interesting question of why Sheridan, pre season 4, never made an attempt to get Londo of the station, because I'd say by the end of season 2 at the latest it was obvious that Londo and the Shadows had a connection. Granted, before Babylon 5's secession from Earth, Londo has diplomatic immunity, but afterwards, as Bester cynically but not inaccurately phrases it, B5 isn't a democracy but a military dictatorship, meaning Sheridan has absolute authority until season 5.
I think Delenn was completely wrong, though, when she said that Morden would talk sooner or later if Sheridan kept trying. Wouldn't the Shadows just get him out if he seemed about to talk? But I doubt he would have talked anyway, since he's not their servant. He's their associate. He believes completely in what he's doing, and he isn't about to ruin things for himself.
Ah, but I don't think Delenn sees it that way. (Or Kosh, for that matter.) From her pov, the Shadows are evil and destructive, and not able to command someone's loyalty or bravery. So she assumes that a) Morden is a minion, and b) he's going to spill after enough pressure. Remember that Delenn is disturbed when Sheridan says he's trying the situation from the Shadows' pov in late season 3?
As for whether or not Morden would have talked: if Sheridan had used actual torture, presumably he would have because Morden is still human. If it had been "solely" prison and verbal intimidation? No.
And the rest of the Minbari aren't much better - one of them says that the war can't be stopped because it's taken on a life of its own, which is a handy way of making it everyone's war but no-one's fault.
Londo is prone to saying "I have no choice" re: the Narn/Centauri war as well, but in his case, not only does Vir point out that it isn't true but Londo himself comes to realize later on it wasn't, and in any event the show never gives us reason to assume we're supposed to believe he doesn't. Which is one reason why I think B5 handles the Narn/Centauri storyline more realistically than the Human/Minbari backstory.
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