eye_of_a_cat (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
eye_of_a_cat) wrote2004-05-06 01:25 am
eye_of_a_cat) wrote2004-05-06 01:25 am
Entry tags:
(no subject)
He's not dead.
This isn't just denial. My favourite characters always die, to the point where my friends consider it a kind of spoiler warning - anyone I mention liking will die, get used to it. (I believe other people have this ability with goldfish or houseplants.) I've had a long time to get used to this, and if I really thought Lennier was dead, I'd be able to accept it with only minimal grumbling. I'm convinced he isn't, though.
Firstly, the toast to 'absent friends' in SiL, which everyone bar me seems to think means 'dead friends'. I know the others mentioned are canonically dead by this point, but 'absent' could just mean 'absent' in Lennier's case, which is what I assumed when I first saw SiL - Delenn just hadn't seen him since Objects at Rest.
Secondly, Morden's hints in Day of the Dead. It's Morden. I don't trust Morden.
Thirdly, the speculation for Crusade, in which both JMS and an abandoned script apparently imply Lennier dies during the Telepath War. It's not directly stated anywhere I can find, but it's implied pretty heavily. Well. Not only do I think this doesn't mean Lennier's dead by the time of Crusade, but I'm halfway convinced that it proves he's not.
I don't trust JMS either (a bit more than Morden, maybe), and I know that in the past he's been very, very secretive about future plot developments. (He's definitely lied about things on at least one occasion to distract people from guessing.) Even with Crusade being cancelled (and the Telepath War predates Crusade), it seems extremely unlike him to give away a plot point involving a character death so lightly. He's not given up working within the B5 universe, so why tell everyone about a plot point which hasn't happened yet? And if he did want to, for whatever reason, why not just say it outright rather than dance around it, all the time dropping hints which are much, much more obvious than all his normal ones? Something is suspicious here.
I think it suits JMS to have people assume Lennier's dead. Giving away future plot points doesn't usually suit JMS, but pointing people down a different route so they won't expect them does, and I think that's what he's doing here.
That's about 75% reasoning with reference to JMS's sneakiness in the past, and 25% clamping my hands over my ears while shouting very loudly "It's not true! It's not!" Which isn't a bad ratio, all things considered.
This isn't just denial. My favourite characters always die, to the point where my friends consider it a kind of spoiler warning - anyone I mention liking will die, get used to it. (I believe other people have this ability with goldfish or houseplants.) I've had a long time to get used to this, and if I really thought Lennier was dead, I'd be able to accept it with only minimal grumbling. I'm convinced he isn't, though.
Firstly, the toast to 'absent friends' in SiL, which everyone bar me seems to think means 'dead friends'. I know the others mentioned are canonically dead by this point, but 'absent' could just mean 'absent' in Lennier's case, which is what I assumed when I first saw SiL - Delenn just hadn't seen him since Objects at Rest.
Secondly, Morden's hints in Day of the Dead. It's Morden. I don't trust Morden.
Thirdly, the speculation for Crusade, in which both JMS and an abandoned script apparently imply Lennier dies during the Telepath War. It's not directly stated anywhere I can find, but it's implied pretty heavily. Well. Not only do I think this doesn't mean Lennier's dead by the time of Crusade, but I'm halfway convinced that it proves he's not.
I don't trust JMS either (a bit more than Morden, maybe), and I know that in the past he's been very, very secretive about future plot developments. (He's definitely lied about things on at least one occasion to distract people from guessing.) Even with Crusade being cancelled (and the Telepath War predates Crusade), it seems extremely unlike him to give away a plot point involving a character death so lightly. He's not given up working within the B5 universe, so why tell everyone about a plot point which hasn't happened yet? And if he did want to, for whatever reason, why not just say it outright rather than dance around it, all the time dropping hints which are much, much more obvious than all his normal ones? Something is suspicious here.
I think it suits JMS to have people assume Lennier's dead. Giving away future plot points doesn't usually suit JMS, but pointing people down a different route so they won't expect them does, and I think that's what he's doing here.
That's about 75% reasoning with reference to JMS's sneakiness in the past, and 25% clamping my hands over my ears while shouting very loudly "It's not true! It's not!" Which isn't a bad ratio, all things considered.
About that conversation with Morden...
First of all, I think the conversation most makes sense as Morden trying to get Lennier to play a part in the destruction of Centauri Prime, in which he quite succeeded. Second of all, the things Morden said are quite ambiguous, and don't really mean anything. As far as I remember, the only two pieces of information he gives are 1) "Delenn does not love you like you love her, and never will." (which, if you are less self-hating than Lennier, would be a simple statement of the obvious - there are many ways in which Delenn's love for Lennier is different than her love for him, not the least that it will never feel unrequited.) and 2) that he will find out if there is life after death "soon enough" (which, since there's no time frame, and any time is soon to someone who is dead or immortal, doesn't mean anything at all. Even if we discount the possibility that he could be destined to find out about life after death in some way other than dying.)
I'm also stuck on the King Solomon reference. If Neil Gaiman didn't notice that by having Lennier ask for wisdom he was making him into King Solomon, well, he should have. (The King Solomon narrative is, as far as I can remember, the only Biblical narrative where God asks 'what do you want' instead of just giving a blessing.) Especially after all the hints (and the occasional outright statement) about Delenn training Lennier to be her successor. If Delenn is the messianic figure, her sucessor would be the Solomonic figure. One would think.
The problem is, JMS didn't write this episode. So maybe we can't hold him responsible for hints and allusions in it. Still, these hints are as canon as anything, certainly as canon as things JMS says he thought of but never filmed.
Re: About that conversation with Morden...
*narrowly avoids giggling Coke all over the keyboard*
On Morden's motivation - yes, I think so. As you said in your essay on Lennier, the destruction of Centauri Prime is the one thing we do know Morden wants (and the way he threatens Londo with that when we see him lose control makes me sure he'd still want it, even if he was dead and not serving the Shadows - well, sort of not serving them). He's spent enough time helping other people get what they want, and not having to do too much himself. I think he'd know exactly how to go about getting Centauri Prime to burn.
I also noticed the way Morden kept hinting that he was there because Lennier wanted him there. I suppose that's not completely out of the question, since we don't get told why particular ghosts return to particular people, but he really emphasises it. That would make Lennier doubt himself more, and make him even more likely to interpret anything Morden says in the worst way possible.
Oh, and I just thought - when Lennier tells him something like "I could not betray the Rangers any more than my fingers could betray my hand", isn't that almost exactly what Neroon says to Shakiri (only with 'my caste' instead) in season 4? (I think, anyway.) And at that point, Neroon is betraying his caste, pretty much, but it's for a perfectly justifiable reason. Maybe betraying the Rangers wouldn't have to be so bad, either. Of course Lennier wouldn't see it that way, and it didn't work out so well when he did betray them, but maybe if he'd been able to hear Morden's words differently...
If Neil Gaiman didn't notice that by having Lennier ask for wisdom he was making him into King Solomon, well, he should have.
And Solomon gets his wisdom to the point where people from all lands come to listen, doesn't he? So that could make sense in the context of Meditations on the Abyss, where Rangers from all over the galaxy are asked the 'What do you want?' question that Lennier taught them. (Although admittedly he's not the one asking it of them.) Wisdom from Morden would pretty much have to be knowing how to ask and answer that question, I think.
Re: About that conversation with Morden...
The Neroon reference is a nice one, although I'm not sure where it gets us.
I do think Lennier really wanted Morden there. I think he's the first of the Minbari to get that 'what do you want' is an important question, and to want it asked of him. The problem is, that goes so much against everything he's learned, and he can't forgive himself for it.